990112 1203 - Opinion poll B XVI Results after 1 day

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Von: Marco Bettoni <m.bettoni@fhbb.ch>
An: Kant List Bucknell <kant-l@bucknell.edu>
Cc: Rolf Todesco <todesco@compuserve.com>; Robert Ottiger <ottiger@swissonline.ch>
Betreff: Opinion poll B XVI: Results after 1 day
Datum: Dienstag, 12. Januar 1999 12:03

Dear all,

eight participants of this list sent an opinion (selection of A or B; with
or without comments) as answer to my opinion poll sent yesterday. Some of
these answers were sent to my individual address. Two answers came from
friends outside the Kant list.

Add to this my answer (99% of 'normal' science today conforms to option A)
for a total of 11 answers.

Thank you a lot.

OPTIONS (reminder)
===============

A) "alle unsere Erkenntnis muss sich nach den Gegenständen richten"
(all our knowledge must conform to objects)

B) "die Gegenstände müssen sich nach unserem Erkenntnis richten"
(the objects must conform to our knowledge)

RESULTS at 12:00 (GMT + 1) of Jan. 12, 1999:
==================================

1) dominant paradigm is A = 6
2) dominant paradigm is B = 2
3) questioning the question = 3

COMMENTS:
==========

1) dominant paradigm is A = 6
-----------------------------------------

- Three participants (who sent their answer to the list) suggested that
however there are some movements, research domains or "cutting edge"
researchers who adopt option B.

* My experience confirms this: the problem that I see is that their
contributions are not taken seriously within normal science, not discussed
and that their impact is weak.

* I experience that normal science (for instance Artificial Intelligence or
Cognitive Science main streams) is unable to accept the question "A or B ?"
because they take A for granted.

* Kant does not take B for granted: he puts B as the fundamental hypothesis
and writes 900 pages of CpR to prove the viability of B.

* Steve proposed that "cutting edge" researcher adopt option B. But I
experience difficulties also within "cutting edge" research. One example is
a neuroinformatics group where I have been invited to present my B-approach
(see http://www.fhbb.ch/weknow/ini/front.htm): they would like to implement
a robot which learns to construct a world model from its interactions with
the world, but have difficulties with the idea that any object in the
robot's world should "conform to the robot's knowledge".

* Another counterexample is Piaget himself, who - according to Stephen -
considers himself to be "profoundly Kantian". I like very much most of
Piaget's work but his foundations concerning the choice "A or B" are not
enough explicit to me.
In "Biologie et Connaissance" [§ 8.V] he considers, together with Konrad
Lorenz, that Kant's "a priori categories" (Piaget: catégories a priori ...
dans la pensée humaine) are innate, which amounts at reintroducing the A
paradigm.

2) dominant paradigm is B = 2
-----------------------------------------

- one of the two participants who selected B considers that the humanities
in the US are "still more under the influence of French idealism ...
(Focault, Derrida, ...)"
* this would be a paradigm C different from B. In fact Kant explicitely
rejected idealism (B 274), said of himself that he is an empirical realist
(A 371, 375) and repeatedly made references to the existence of things
('Dasein der Dinge').

* The basic idea in B is - as I understand Kant - that knowing makes
objects possible not as far as their existence is concerned ('dem Dasein
nach' B 125) but as far as our experience of order and regularity is
considered (A 125), so to say 'dem Erleben nach'.

3) questioning the question = 3
------------------------------------------

- 3.a = the Kantian dicothomy is not relevant to science (Michael)

* if this dicothomy is not relevant to science, then the whole Critique of
pure reason, which is an answer to that dicothomy, is not relevant to
science. Michael, I do not think, that this can be your position.

- 3.b = the question is paradox, fictitious and socratic

* I do not see how a question like "do you experience that more persons
think A or B ?" could be 'paradox, fictitious and socratic'.

- 3.c = can agree with both A and B / why should my agreement with A or B
have something to do with a paradigm of science and society

* the question is not "do you agree or not with A or B?"; the question is
about what paradigm, A or B, do you experience as dominant (accepted by the
majority of other persons). These are different questions.

FINAL COMMENT: the fundamental task
=============================

Although I received only few answers, I have profited a lot and would like
to continue the conversation with those interested in this topic. It
addresses in my opinion the FUNDAMENTAL TASK of any cognitive science and
philosophy of science.

Marco Bettoni

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